Much of the discussion about the recent investigative reports of the implication of the emails released from the University of East Anglia last fall have been hyperbolic in the extreme. Some have cried whitewash! Others seem to recommend elevating the relevant climate scientists for sainthood. As is typically the case as related to climate debates, reality is not to be found colored in stark black and white, but rather in the more complex shades of gray.It is thus encouraging to see the Financial Times strike exactly the right note on this episode, which, along with the thoughtful perspectives of Fred Pearce and Roger Harrabin, brings a much needed sense of proportion to the issue. Here is an excerpt from the FT editorial today:
The e-mails revealed intellectual arrogance and reluctance to engage critics: climate change sceptics were denied access to CRU data. Some e-mails seemed to imply professional deceit. The controversy rattled climate science. The CRU is small, but important. Some of its members have taken leading roles at the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.The East Anglia emails do not show that climate scientists are criminals or frauds, but they do show the implicated scientists failing to uphold fairly basic norms of science. Given the hyperbolic reactions, it would not be a surprise to see the activist climate scientists once again start trying to overplay their hand , as hubris seems to be endemic to the field. At the same time, the most vocal critics of the climate science community are unlikely to back down, and will no doubt find in the recent investigations fresh fuel for their fury.
A report into the affair, published this week, criticised the CRU employees. They failed to display the “proper degree of openness” required of scientists and were “unhelpful and defensive” in response to reasonable requests for information.But the report found no evidence that the CRU employees’ biases polluted their output. Accusations that they cherry-picked statistical results have been knocked down. Furthermore, persistent sceptics would have been able to access most of the data by other means. But the episode has proved damaging for climate science.
There is dispute among climatologists about projections. Economists and scientists disagree honestly about mitigation strategies. But researchers in the field often see themselves as campaigners, and so try to stamp out dissent. This leads them to breach the rules of scientific discourse.
But the context has changed -- a key difference is that many informed observers are now a bit wiser, and a bit more cynical, about the politicization of climate science. Ironically, to justify their own sense of outrage, the activist scientists and their most ardent critics need each other more today than ever before. And to be honest, they deserve each other. Meantime, discussion of climate policies can continue its movement away from the pathological good guys/bad guys debates and toward a more constructive and open discussion of the politics of climate. Over the long run this movement represents a much needed change for the sake of both climate science and climate policy.
38 comments:
I take exception to association of the word "climate" with "policy." I have never seen anyone demonstrate with any degree of conviction using basic facts that there is any policy that will arrest the cyclical rhythms of climate change. IMHO, continuing to repeat the phrase is horribly misleading by politicos and worse when repeated by people of science.
Why not just focus on environmental policy? Many of those policy fixes are much more demonstrable... clean air, clean water, undisturbed landscapes, etc.
Roger,
If bankers behaved with their reporting and lending practices as the CRU did, they would be up for cirminal fraud.
If inavestment advisors behaved with reporting on investment results and actual investments as the CRU e-mails reveal, the SEC would move in on criminal fraud.
False but true is a fun standard for political extremists, con-artists and now apparently scientsts.
Not one 'investigation' has interviewed even one skeptic. Not one 'investigation' asked for more e-mails to be disclosed so as to find context. Everyone of the 'investigations' has been made by people who directly benefit from the promotion of CAGW. The material reviewed by at least one 'investigation' was selected by the people being allegedly investigated.
The CRU/IPCC are getting as far as they have in no small aprt due to a larger and destructive lapse of ethical constraint.
Once again, Steve M. wasn't asked one single question by the Russell inquiry, even though he was mentioned most. View climateaudit for his reaction...
Roger,
While I appreciate the rhetorical value of 'the truth being somewhere in the middle' it seems to me that the climate progress article you link to (where you say 'eem to recommend elevating the relevant climate scientists for sainthood') does nothing of the sort. Are we reading the same article?
In fact, I'm surprised that you didn't mention this part of the Joe's post:
“We find that CRU was not in a position to withhold access to such data or tamper with it,” it says.
“We demonstrated that any independent researcher can download station data directly from primary sources and undertake their own temperature trend analysis”.
Writing computer code to process the data “took less than two days and produced results similar to other independent analyses. No information from CRU was needed to do this”.
Sir Muir commented: “So we conclude that the argument that CRU has something to hide does not stand up”.
Asked whether it would be reasonable to conclude that anyone claiming instrumental records were unavailable or vital code missing was incompetent, another panel member, Professor Peter Clarke from Edinburgh University, said: “It’s very clear that anyone who’d be competent enough to analyse the data would know where to find it.
“It’s also clear that anyone competent could perform their own analysis without let or hindrance.”
It seems to me that these quotes provide some critical context about the whole affair. Do you agree? If so, why haven't you mentioned this in any of your posts?
I think one overlooked item in the email affair is the impact of the FOI officer at UEA/CRU. He (I am assuming it was a guy) allowed himself to be convinced to not do the job he was hired to do, a job that held legal ramifications if not done according to the law. He should have been fired immediately.
I also find it odd that Jones' email about asking his friends to delete IPCC emails was not investigated more. Since 2005 he had worked with the FOI officer to interpret the statute, and convinced him to not respond to the FOI requests. So by the time of that email in 2008, I think it is impossible to believe that Jones didn't know it would be a crime to delete those emails, re the FOI statute.
Now, one can say that perhaps the recipients of the email didn't know it was a crime to delete the emails, but I find it odd that no one had any reservations at all. The cavalier way that they indicate passing the word on to a 4th colleague is, I think, indicative of their attitude to the rules in general.
It is rather amazing to read the "Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde" descriptions of this report. I haven't made my mind up about whether it was entirely 100% fair-- I anticipated it wouldn't be and I think in some regards it leaned toward the "innocent unless proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt" standard used in criminal courts rather than a "preponderance of the evidence" standard used in civil procedures.
There is also some focus on accusations that I think were largely unmade. CRU critics involved in requesting FOI's were focused on discovering lists of stations and data from those exact stations for the purpose of checking their scripts methods etc. Merely equivalent data would not suffice for this purpose.
The requestors happened to want to see if they could precisely replicate before or instead of creating their own series from scratch. This is often not done in science for many reasons. (It's not publishable for one thing. Scientists who spend time doing unpublishable things don't publish, don't get promoted, don't get research grants etc.)
But the fact that a particular practice is uncommon by peer-review publishing scientists doesn't mean it should never be done, nor does it mean that others are required to limit themselves to precisely the activities scientists deem valuable. Certainly, the fact that the gavins, and phil jones of the world don't like people doing things they don't find valuable is no excuse for the high-handed refusals to provides basic information (i.e. lists of stations used) underlying the CRU data product!
On the other hand, some important the accusations Russel examined were levied pretty widely-- i.e. that the entire temperature record was made up. These accusations never had much basis. The scientists have not just made up evidence for warming out of thin air. Refusing lists of station data was both unreasonable and counterproductive, but it didn't mean the underlying data was manufactured, fraudulent or anything else. So, Russel was correct to find that very similar results are obtained from reconstructions using widely available data while criticizing scientists for their somewhat childish behavior.
-4-Marlowe Johnson
Romm's posts often leave a Rorschach-test sense ;-) The extended quotes Romm repeats from UEA and Mann are what earn this link from me. But as usual, I did link to Romm so that people can read his stuff and come to their own conclusions.
Sorry Roger, I've re-read the post and I just don't see anything in the quotes from UEA or Mann that suggest sainthood. Rorsharch indeed. Ah well.
Can you respond to my second point (the bit about necessary context). Lucia has, and raised some good points.
The FT article doesn't fit the facts I remember. Also, a man who stands to win $10,000 if a football game ends in a draw is not a dispassionate neutral.
I haven't made any specific comments on any of the British government enquiries. Does anyone remember the Star Trek episode when there was a galaxy wide bureaucratic competition and the British team won ? They are smarter than us.
These were the winners
Yes Minister - public enquiry
and
How's the environment?
Margaret Thatcher's favourite TV programme.
marlowe,
If the data really was available and so easy to use, would it not have been clever to bring in Steve McIntyre and point this out to him?
Frankly that 'context' only makes the whitewash look like a whitewash.
for those who are of a certain age, do you think that Watergate would be consdered differently if Nixon had been able to keep the investigation strictly under his control, made sure the investigating committess only held his supporters, and got to place in the record only the evidence Nixon and pals chose?
This is not the first time questions like this have been raised. Frankly the acceptance of the standards used in the 'investigation' by people across the board is one of the most disturbing aspects this case.
-8-Marlowe Johnson
I am sure that Romm says many things in his lengthy post, but I really am not interested in debating it. Sorry.
Lucia,
If you accept that the CRU product could have been verified independently, and both parties know this, then isn't CRU staff within their rights to say 'stop bothering us and go do the work yourself'?
You suggest that just because this isn't the norm in science doesn't suggest that such a request (to be able to precisely replicate their results) doesnt' mean it's unreasonable, but you haven't provided anything to back up this claim.
Why is it reasonable in this case?
Under what circumstances would such a request be unreasonable (i.e. in line with traditional scientific norms)?
Roger,
I wasn't asking you to respond to Joe's entire post, merely the passages I quoted. No offense, but it seems like you're being deliberately obtuse...if you don't want to engage the issue fine, it's your blog afterall!
The argument, made in the Muir Russell report, that you can replicate similar findings through available data and methods misses the whole point of contention. What is more, it is self-defeating: if the results, based on sound data and methods, are easily to reconstruct and undisputable, then not only the skeptics have missed the glaringly obvious, but also CRU and its defenders.
-12-Marlowe
I have only discussed one aspect of the MR report:
http://rogerpielkejr.blogspot.com/2010/07/muir-russel-review.html
I am happy to discuss other aspects of the report, but debating Joe Romm's interpretations is probably not worth either of our efforts ;-)
But do recognize that the MR report (as I read it) explicitly says that it offers no judgments on content of the science, but rather only renders its opinions on procedural issues.
Ok Roger, in order to take Joe out of the picture, let me quote directly from the report:
"16. On the allegation of withholding temperature data, we find that CRU was not in a position to withhold access to such data or tamper with it. We demonstrated that any independent researcher can download station data directly from primary sources and undertake their own temperature trend analysis."
"33. Finding: The computer code required to read and analyse the instrumental temperature data is straightforward to write based upon the published literature. It amounts a few hundred lines of executable code (i.e. ignoring spaces and comments). Such code could be written by any research unit which is competent to reproduce or test the CRUTEM analysis. For the trial analysis of the Review Team, the code was written in less than two days and produced results similar to other independent analyses. No information was required from CRU to do this."
As I've mentioned before, I think both of these findings are very relevant to the whole affair and provide crucial context. Does that mean that the CRU folks are saints? Hardly. But nor are they vulcans!
"12. On the other hand there are some e-mails which show that CRU members may have gone out of their way to make life difficult for their critics, just as they perceived the critics to be frustrating their work."
Another useful bit IMO that deserves attention:
"14. Finding: The extreme modes of expression used in many e-mails are characteristic of the medium. Crucially, the e-mails cannot always be relied upon as evidence of what actually occurred, nor indicative of actual behaviour that is extreme, exceptional or unprofessional."
Personally, I'm not a big fan of FOI legislation being used in the context of the CRU products, as this is still the realm of academic science rather than regulatory science, where FOI of course is much more justified. Having said that, while I think that while McIntyre's requests were spurious, they nevertheless met the criteria of the legislation and should have been honored. On this point, I'll agree, albeit reluctantly.
-15-Marlowe Johnson
I am happy to offer some thoughts in response.
First, the notion that _processed_ data could be downloaded and replicated has never been in dispute (has it?). The issue that I am aware of is with respect to _raw_ data which is the source of the processing. There is a difference here between coming up with (a) an independent analysis of station data from (b) specifically replicating the CRUTEM record. it is with respect to the latter (b) that (some of) the FOIs were issued that I am aware of.
So I guess I'd say that the MR #s 16 and 33 sound right to me, but somewhat off target. It is of course difficult to know what or whose complaints #s 16 and 33 are in response to, because MR does not say.
With respect to #14, I find that rationale completely unsatisfying. To say that the "emails cannot always be relied on" means what exactly? That they can "sometimes be relied on"? Mealy mouthed at best, empty at worst. Over the past 20 years I have been party to probably tens of thousands of emails among climate scientists. I can pretty well judge how representative the ones from UEA are in broader context, and they are not broadly representative.
Finally on FOI, remember, this is not just academic science, but government science, and government science is subject to FOI.
Here is someone who is really qualified to comment, a politician with a science Ph.D. who was on the committee. The devil is in the procedural bureaucracy.
The appointments and the terms of reference are crucial. Tit is almost tautological to appoint establishment figures who know what is expected of them. British government enquiries always return the answer the they want.
Parliament misled over Climategate report, says MP
Parliament was misled and needs to re-examine the Climategate affair thoroughly after the failure of the Russell report, a leading backbench MP told us today.
"It's not a whitewash, but it is inadequate," is Labour MP Graham Stringer's summary of the Russell inquiry report. Stringer is the only member of the House of Commons Select Committee on Science and Technology with scientific qualifications - he holds a PhD in Chemistry.
Not only did Russell fail to deal with the issues of malpractice raised in the emails, Stringer told us, but he confirmed the feeling that MPs had been misled by the University of East Anglia when conducting their own inquiry. Parliament only had time for a brief examination of the CRU files before the election, but made recommendations. This is a serious charge.
After the Select Committee heard oral evidence on March 1, MPs believed that Anglia had entrusted an examination of the science to a separate inquiry. Vice Chancellor of the University of East Anglia Edward Acton had told the committee that "I am hoping, later this week, to announce the chair of a panel to reassess the science and make sure there is nothing wrong."[Hansard - Q129]]
Ron Oxburgh's inquiry eventually produced a short report clearing the participants. He did not reassess the science, and now says it was never in his remit. "The science was not the subject of our study," he confirmed in an email to Steve McIntyre of Climate Audit.
Earlier this week the former chair of the Science and Technology Committee, Phil Willis, now Lord Willis, said MPs had been amazed at the "sleight of hand".
"Oxburgh didn't go as far as I expected. The Oxburgh Report looks much more like a whitewash," Graham Stringer told us.
Stringer says Anglia appointee Muir Russell (a civil servant and former Vice Chancellor of Glasgow University), failed in three significant areas.
"Why did they delete emails? The key question was what reason they had for doing this, but this was never addressed; not getting to the central motivation was a major failing both of our report and Muir Russell."
Graham Stringer
Stringer also says that it was unacceptable for Russell (who is not a scientist) to conclude that CRU's work was reproducible, when the data needed was not available.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/07/09/stringer_on_russell/
To avoid confusion. Stringer was a minority dissenting voice in the House of Commons Select Committee on Science and Technology which investigated the affair earlier this year.
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/climate-change-scandal-mps-exonerate-professor-1931631.html
Roger ended with "Meantime, discussion of climate policies can continue its movement away from the pathological good guys/bad guys debates and toward a more constructive and open discussion of the politics of climate. Over the long run this movement represents a much needed change for the sake of both climate science and climate policy."
Heck, I'd be happy if we could start getting basic competence from the science -- Siting thermometers properly, replicating important studies, trying honest peer review procedures, using statistics properly, getting help from software experts, employing the scientific method, abiding by the principles of forecasting, acknowledging uncertainties, avoiding scary hype.....
In a 1995 paper about reproducible research two Stanford statisticians make the obvious point: "For a field to qualify as a science, it is important first and foremost that published work be reproducible by others." (p.4)
This is followed, on the next page, by a formulation attributed to Stanford geophysicist Jon Claerbout:
"An article about computational science in a scientific publication is not the scholarship itself, it is merely advertising of the scholarship. The actual scholarship is the complete software development environment and the complete set
of instructions which generated the figures."
15 year ago these folks recognized that not only was it necessary to make the raw data available to third parties, but every single line of computer code that came anywhere near that data must also be released into the public domain.
It now seems apparent that many climate scientists have spent their entire careers in a milieu in which no one has ever attempted to reproduce their findings. Not ever. In lieu of reproducibility, their confidence in the accuracy of their results seems to stem from the fact that bunches of other climate scientists agree with them.
http://www-stat.stanford.edu/~donoho/Reports/1995/wavelab.pdf
Donna Laframboise
Isn't the issue with regard to the CRUTEM data the nature of the adjustments? In some data sets, it seems a little strange when almost all the adjustments for station relocation or modernization lead to increased temperatures. It is my understanding that one of the reasons for at least some of FOI requests was to gain access to the adjustment methods and documentation. Isn't this the information that Jones said was no longer available? Raw data and code used to fill or normalize grids can be replicated and the outcomes tend to be similar. However, this may or may not be the case for the adjustments. It seems reasonable to ask for the annotated data that includes the reasons and formulas used for the adjustments. If these cannot be produced, this should be at least embarrassing to EAU.
I haven't read the whole report and won't try to characterize it as a whole. But the misrepresentation of the IPCC's mission is a case of redefining the rules to prove that no rules have been broken. I'm inclined to call that "whitewashing".
Quote, "thoughtful perspectives of Fred Pearce and Roger Harrabin."
It was Fred Pearce who gave us Glaciergate (2035 and all that).
It was Roger Harrabin who altered a BBC Online report on climate forecasting report following complaints by an environmentalist.
Post Climategate these two are only thinking of self-preservation.
Lets be clear about the Oxburgh and Russell reports, the chairs of these review panels have openly admitted that the actual science conducted at CRU and the substance and intent of the CRU emails were not part of their remits.
To laud this FT editorial when it states, "But the report found no evidence that the CRU employees’ biases polluted their output. Accusations that they cherry-picked statistical results have been knocked down. Furthermore, persistent sceptics would have been able to access most of the data by other means", as somehow as a thoughtful perspective is utterly laughable.
It is worth concluding where we currently stand on Climategate. The Oxburgh and Russell reviews were not independent. They were not about the quality of the science nor the substance and intent of the emails. These reviews were all about exonerating the protagonists, and they follow in the footsteps of similar official whitewashes - Widgery (Bloody Sunday), Franks (Falklands War), Hutton (Iraqi WMDs and the death of Dr David Kelly).
Roger the only person you are fooling in this entire matter is yourself.
Jeff Id has a new post about the way the NSIDC is spinning and hyping in the latest release on sea ice. The record ice in the Antarctic is barely mentioned. The loss of Artic ice, however, is hyped repeatedly.
This isn't an honest effort by the NSDIC. Yes, it is exactly what we expect, but that demonstrates the problem. Roger seems to think that we can move forward on the science. How? The scientists aren't honest and fair.
Malcolm
Hamlet: Do you see that cloud, that's almost in shape like a camel?
Polonius: By the mass, and 't is like a camel, indeed.
Hamlet: Methinks, it is like a weasel.
Polonius: It is backed like a weasel.
Hamlet: Or, like a whale?
Polonius: Very like a whale.
If you accept that the CRU product could have been verified independently, and both parties know this, then isn't CRU staff within their rights to say 'stop bothering us and go do the work yourself'?
No. They aren't. The fact that one could create reconstructions on ones own does not mean that CRU gets to refuse to provide information underlying their own product. The claim that they have such a right is so contrary to the tradition in science as to be mindboggling.
Moreover, in the case of CRU specifically, the law happens to not permit this.
You suggest that just because this isn't the norm in science doesn't suggest that such a request (to be able to precisely replicate their results) doesnt' mean it's unreasonable, but you haven't provided anything to back up this claim
Whats to back up? If I say, "Just because some people don't eat pork doesn't make outsiders desire to eat pork unreasonable," do I have to provide evidence to back my claim? If someone refuses to let me eat pork because they and people in their tribe don't eat pork is that ok? And if they point out that there are plenty of tasty recipes for brisket, does that make their refusal to let me eat pork is ok? Does the existence of tasty brisket recipes make me unreasonable to want to eat pork?
It is simply the case that the fact that the gavins and phil jones of the world don't value what SteveM wanted to do doesn't make what SteveM wanted unreasonable to want. The fact that one could already do something gavin and phil suggest is more valuable does not mean that SteveM should be blocked from doing what he judges worthwhile.
This observation doesn't need any more backing up than my beef and pork example.
Roger:
I am sure you will not be surprised that Steve McIntyre's analysis of the Muir Russell report is somewhat more substantive, precise and on point, IMHO, that those you have chosen to highlight.
The litany of flaws in the MR review process is the stuff of legend and future case studies of aberrant behavior by policy makers.
#25 Lucia,
If I say, "Just because some people don't eat pork doesn't make outsiders desire to eat pork unreasonable,"
Pork was banned in many societies because the 'science of the day' determined it was a public health risk. Swine Flu being the latest 'pork related' disease. Our understanding of germs and disease transmission may have increased markedly in the last 100 or so years, but statistical correlation has been around for a very long time.
Some societies chose to mitigate the risks related to pork, others banned pork. Last I checked, the great Pork debate persists. Egypt slaughtered 350,000 pigs in 2009 in order to combat 'swine flu'.
The cold hard reality is that your desire to consume pork products endangers us all in some small statistically significant way. Science is clear on this.
There isn't a limit to what human activities can be regulated and banned based on solid science. Everything from procreation to whether or not you have a BBQ pork sandwich(swine flu) or a chicken sandwich(Avian Flu)for lunch as virtually all activities involve some greater societal risk.
I wish I could be as optimistic as Roger about the tone of the Climate debate, but it is no different then the Pork Debate. CO2 emissions will cause some statistically significant change in climate(possibly quite small) that represents a risk to others in society.
Those that feel the risk is unacceptable will use any means necessary to get rid of the risk and feel justified in doing so. Others will see things differently.
So in conclusion, no matter how human scientists are...
No matter how much personal bias each one may have (case in point - this site)...
The facts proving climate change are irrefutable.
Scientists personal biases and human failings are not unique to climate science.
This has been going on since the beginning.
But, the peer-review process - as imperfect as it is - does mitigate the chances for personal biases to sway the data.
Anyone ever hear of Pons and Fleischman? Cold fusion, anyone?
"Accusations that they cherry-picked statistical results have been knocked down."
I am unaware they have even been investigated.
The cynicism of the British government can be seen in the appointments to the 'independent' Climate Change Committee.
Adair Turner - FSA Chairman since September 2008.
In January 2008 he was appointed Chair of the Climate Change Committee, and he is also Chair of the Overseas Development Institute. Until September 2008 Lord Turner was a non-executive Director at Standard Chartered Bank; from 2000-2006 he was a Senior Adviser, Vice-Chairman of Merrill Lynch Europe, and from 1995-99, Director General of the Confederation of British Industry.
He was, until appointed at the FSA, a trustee of Save the Children UK, and has been a trustee of WWF.UK
http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/About/Who/board/turner.shtml
The FSA, who's lack of regulation has led to them being accused of being responsible for the collapse of the British banking system and facilitating the accounting tricks of Lehman Brothers and AIG, the two biggest players in the global financial crash.
The finance industry will be the greatest beneficiary of the multi trillion carbon trading system and London the centre of the market.
Other members (9 in total)
http://www.theccc.org.uk/about-the-ccc/the-committee
David Kennedy, Chief Executive
Previously he worked on energy strategy at the World Bank, and design of infrastructure investment projects at the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development.
Two others are employees of 106 billion dollar hedge fund manager, Jeremy Grantham.
http://www.gmo.com/america
Lucia,
with respect, I'm underwhelmed by your latest.
"The fact that one could create reconstructions on ones own does not mean that CRU gets to refuse to provide information underlying their own product."
your next bit is even worse. if you like pork so be it. why should others be forced to eat it?
Let's get to the heart of the matter by making things a little more explicit. what is the value of precise replication, when such replication has MORE OR LESS already been done by competing groups? Or to put it more bluntly, is Jones really obligated to hand-hold McIntyre et al through the whole exercise simply because they ask?
Isn't it reasonable for such a person to say that they have more important things to do?
If not, WHY not?
Amazing.
A 'review' that did not actually review anything, did not interview one person who had complaints or critiques, is held as a reasonable and comprehensive effort.
And the majority of discussions here are about how justified the poor climate scientists are in their stand and actions.
So climate science is now an ethics-free zone that can only be reviewed by those who agree with it in the first place.
And we are turning over the world economy to the pronouncements of these same climate scientists and their pals.
If you take out replication then you don't have science. Replication is standard process that validates scinetific hypotheses.
What is the value of precise replication?
That is not a question you would ask of a physicist!
Precise replication of experiments allows physicists to determine the errors in those experiments and so improve our understanding of the nature of the experiment and the results it produces. This is fundamental to physics for it ultimately brings clarity.
The accurate and precise determination of the physical constants and physical parameters through experimentation, replication and experimental refinement has revolutionised our understanding of this physical universe.
If climate science followed such a process then we would not have a multitude global temperature anamoly (GTA) graphics, nor GCMs, nor hockey sticks (HS).
Only one GTA graphic, GCM, or HS can be correct, but all can be wrong.
At the moment what we have is a political and ideological exercises by climate scientists to protect their data their methodolgies from any scrutiny.
To state, "Go out and do your own GTA, GCM and HS", as a defence for non-disclosure is simply unscientific
if you like pork so be it. why should others be forced to eat it?
I'm not saying anyone should; I'm saying the opposite. I should think if the analogy holds you are the one supporting that a group (i.e. gavins & phils of the worlds) gets to dictate what someone else should eat (i.e. steveM.)
Let's get to the heart of the matter by making things a little more explicit. what is the value of precise replication, when such replication has MORE OR LESS already been done by competing groups?
Presumably, you think there is no value, but SteveM and some others believe there is value to them. Why should you get to say SteveM doesn't get to do what is valuable to him?
Or to put it more bluntly, is Jones really obligated to hand-hold McIntyre et al through the whole exercise simply because they ask?
Handhold? First, no one was asking for hand holding. They were asking for lists of stations and data actually used. This isn't asking for "hand holding".
Had anyone asked Jones to hold their hand, or even give them a great big smooch, Jones would have been permitted to refuse that.
And, it appears the law requires Jones etc. to respond to FOI's. So, no, it is not reasonable for Jones to waste enormous amounts of time-- including his own dreaming up ways to avoid complying with FOI.
we seem to be talking past each other on this one Lucia. Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Until next time.
Marlowe Johnson said... 32
"Or to put it more bluntly, is Jones really obligated to hand-hold McIntyre et al through the whole exercise simply because they ask?"
I'll quite the USAF media guide.
"Because the very existence of the Air Force depends on the “consent of the governed,” we have a duty to keep the citizenry informed on our mission, our performance of that mission and our stewardship of public resources."
To me, there is nothing worse then working on a government funded project. Everybody and their brother looks over your shoulder and seconds guesses you.
Since I don't like it, I find other employment.
If Jones,Schmidt,Hansen et al find providing information to 'the governed' too onerous they should find work that doesn't involve government funding.
Lucia,
You are absolutely correct. Jones, Mann, and the rest are demanding that the world expend massive resources and impose draconian restrictions on billions of people, but they are willing to have anyone check their work. The hubris is off the charts.
If they won't let the public check their work, 1) the public shouldn't pay for it, and even more importantly 2) the public should never, ever use it as a basis for policy decisions.
Climate science should be examined with the same thoroughness of drug research or even mining prospectuses. Since the risk of harm to society is so much greater, the level of scrutiny should be as high or higher.
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